mandojeff
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Musical Instrument(s): Guitar, Mandolin
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Post by mandojeff on Dec 21, 2015 17:07:26 GMT -5
The other night Cali asked a question about melody and harmony as they relate to hymns. Since this discussion is not really functional in the chat format, she asked me to start a thread about hymnody. Hymns and church music have affected all areas of Western music, so while it's certainly helpful for believers, I would think it helpful for non believers as well from a cultural/referential standpoint. For our discussion, those distinctions won't matter, so feel free to jump in regardless of belief, experience, etc. Well, here goes….
It’s impossible to separate hymnody from church history and issues within the church at particular times, so we can talk about those things as they arise. Also, since there are now so many variations on churches within Christianity, exceptions to everything will be easily found. I’m going to try to stay as general as possible in the beginning and we can chase whatever rabbits we find.
Let’s begin here:
I. Form/Style
First, don’t confuse form with style. Form has to do with the structure of the song. (Verses, bridges, choruses, etc.). Style refers to the way in which it’s sung (Country, Rock, Bluegrass, Modern, Classical, Traditional, etc.).
II. Scripture speaks of three forms of songs: Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.
The Psalms continue to be used and part or all of them constantly set to new/different tunes. Some churches still sing only Psalms during worship services.
Hymns have been used since the early church. They are usually strophic, that is verse/chorus repeated with differing words in the verses. Their focus is most often 'vertical'- singing prayer/praise to God or about His attributes. This is still the majority of song type within churches, though the musical style varies widely.
Spiritual songs encompass songs about life on Earth. They’re usually more ‘horizontal’- sharing testimony of life in Christ, struggles, blessings, etc. Many gospel songs, spirituals and more contemporary songs fall into this category.
III. In addition to three types of song, there are two types of singing- congregational and individual.
This might seem silly to point out, but these are some important distinctions (particularly due to the way this thread came about). A soloist, a worship band and a congregation don’t all approach a song the same way and a worship leader needs to be intentional about the groups involved.
If it's suitable, I'll create a thread for each of the three topics in order to keep questions/discussions somewhat organized. Will try to start on point one in the next couple of days. I don't have all the answers and nuances, and I expect some of you will have more knowledge within certain traditions than I do, but we'll work through it together. Hope it's beneficial. I wouldn't do this in most forums, but having spent a bit of time with you all at MCR, I'm comfortable with our respect level for each other, decency, etc. Glad we can have this type of discussion!
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Post by laughingmooseinn on Dec 23, 2015 21:59:24 GMT -5
In the arena of "Form & Style"...Would Shapenote singing fall under Style? Are you familiar with this? I was hoping you might be. I have never participated in it but always found it interesting and very beautiful to hear. It was always included at a local festival. Unfortunately Cass and I could not get involved since we also were performing at that same venue and not able to go. I was always so disappointed. That festival is now defunct; a victim of the recent/past economy. As to "Form", while I have always liked the tune, Amazing Grace, it gets boring to me since it never leaves it verse/verse/verse kind of deal. But don't get me wrong, the lyrics are important to me. In our area we have such a great variety of churches from very VERY conservative to as liberal as you like. There is something for everyone I guess.  We have attended churches where hymn singing was all A Capella. No musical instruments allowed as they believed that their true worship to God must be with their own abilities and voices. They believed it to be "working" or inappropriately/trying to earn God's favor to bring anything but themselves to God, instruments included. I'm not sure if I worded that correctly or if I got it a little wrong. But these same churches have some of the most beautiful singing I have ever heard in my life! Some churches we've attended also talked about the bass beat or something to that effect. To them, depending on where that falls in the music makes it sinful to them or holy. I wish I could explain it better but I just thought I'd throw some things into the conversation that I have observed around here. |
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mandojeff
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Musical Instrument(s): Guitar, Mandolin
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Post by mandojeff on Dec 27, 2015 13:32:21 GMT -5
Well...I typed out a nice long response to the and it disappeared... Grrr.
Yep-shape note singing is largely a style. Early example is Sacred Harp singing where the songs are lined out by a leader in a call and response method. Great example of oral tradition. Shape notes are a visual bridge between oral tradition and western notation. For those not familiar, instead of round note heads, the heads have either round, triangular, square or diamond shapes based on tones of the scale. The solfege or 'fa-sol-la' syllables are used. It was common for groups to first sing their parts using the syllables, then transition to the lyrics. There were singing schools in the Summer and folks would learn songs from new songbooks. This tradition was the beginning of many/most Southern Gospel quartets. Notice that all of this is outside formal worship, but the popularity of the movement brought some of the music into worship.
Amazing Grace is a great example of a strophic (verse) song. The style may change, but the form and the melody rarely change.
As expected, a church's beliefs, practices and resources all come to bear on music in worship. Some of the a Capella only churches, for instance, are in an effort to connect with the early New Testament church and as you say that instrumental accomplishment might bring glory to the instrument or the instrumentalist, rather than God. As to the idea that some music is inherently good or evil, that argument has gone on since Medieval times and will likely continue. It's often a misstatement of the idea that music is not neutral and can carry cultural ideas/baggage. That means, at the least, that churches should be intentional about what music is in worship and how they lead their congregants. Since that goes to the heart of Cali's question, I'm sure we'll talk more about it.
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Post by laughingmooseinn on Dec 30, 2015 21:23:12 GMT -5
I'm replying "on the fly" right now, but just wanted to pop in here and say thanks for info on the Shape Note. As for the "Call and Response", one of the best examples I know of for that is a tune Ralph Stanley does in this manner, it's really beautiful;
I'm really hoping Cali will see this post and jump in too...or anyone else for that matter.
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mandojeff
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Posts: 33
Musical Instrument(s): Guitar, Mandolin
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Post by mandojeff on Dec 30, 2015 21:33:33 GMT -5
Working on the next section of this discussion. Hope to post it this weekend.
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Post by Caligonian1 on Jan 2, 2016 2:47:02 GMT -5
Thank you guys for the heads up about this thread and to Mando for starting it. I'm finding it most interesting. Mando, you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject -- I'm curious how you acquired this knowledge. Have you folks seen the shape note documentary, "Awake, My Soul: The Story of the Sacred Harp"? I watched it on a DVD from Netflix a few years ago and it was really good. The music was beautiful and the history was fascinating. As a bonus, the film was narrated by Jim Lauderdale. I love how this form of music is being carried forward, especially in the South, but also in places farther north and west. I think we should add a sacred harp performance to our Jungle Yacht(s) itinerary. awakemysoul.com/ |
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Post by laughingmooseinn on Jan 2, 2016 10:38:53 GMT -5
Thank you for the heads up on the documentary Cali, I am going to look that one up.
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mandojeff
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Posts: 33
Musical Instrument(s): Guitar, Mandolin
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Post by mandojeff on Jan 2, 2016 17:04:28 GMT -5
Cali- I grew up in a family of Gospel singers, so I was surrounded by trio/quartet music and going to singings and conventions. The songbooks were all shaped notes. I learned about the predecessor Sacred Harp music later. Hymns were in church services too. I was heavily into early 'Contemporary Christian Music' in my teens, and I watched that movement grow and wane. Later, I majored in music, so I became familiar with early church music and the transitions from antiquity through Renaissance and Reformation and I spent 15 years in church music as a part time situation and I've sung with several choral groups. So, experience and listening, I guess would be the answer to replace all the previous sentences..  |
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Post by art on Jan 6, 2016 22:35:52 GMT -5
I'm replying "on the fly" right now, but just wanted to pop in here and say thanks for info on the Shape Note. As for the "Call and Response", one of the best examples I know of for that is a tune Ralph Stanley does in this manner, it's really beautiful; I'm really hoping Cali will see this post and jump in too...or anyone else for that matter. BB King used a lot of Call and Response as well. |
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Post by Caligonian1 on Jan 6, 2016 23:50:24 GMT -5
Cali- I grew up in a family of Gospel singers, so I was surrounded by trio/quartet music and going to singings and conventions. The songbooks were all shaped notes. I learned about the predecessor Sacred Harp music later. Hymns were in church services too. I was heavily into early 'Contemporary Christian Music' in my teens, and I watched that movement grow and wane. Later, I majored in music, so I became familiar with early church music and the transitions from antiquity through Renaissance and Reformation and I spent 15 years in church music as a part time situation and I've sung with several choral groups. So, experience and listening, I guess would be the answer to replace all the previous sentences.. Mando, I figured that you must have more than just a passing interest in gospel music to be as knowledgeable on the subject as you are. It sounds like you've been immersed in it your whole life; I'll bet you and Jim L. have a lot in common in that regard. |
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mandojeff
New Member
Posts: 33
Musical Instrument(s): Guitar, Mandolin
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Post by mandojeff on Jan 7, 2016 10:00:14 GMT -5
Yeah, music in general. I take styles in phases- Jazz, blues, classical, etc. at different terms.
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Post by 1thinlizzy on Jan 7, 2016 23:15:57 GMT -5
This is Why Cloggers Forum Rocks from threads like this!  Mando Thank You for the Hymnody 101 MCR-Fans Course! Mando Rocks!  Lizzy |
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Post by laughingmooseinn on Jan 12, 2016 21:36:14 GMT -5
........Hymns were in church services too. I was heavily into early 'Contemporary Christian Music' in my teens, and I watched that movement grow and wane........ I LOVE the old hymns. Myself, nor my husband, grew up in a church. While I dabbled at going to church on my own, in my teens once I had my driver's license...it was hit or miss. My husband and I were drawn to and began regular church attendance several years into our marriage. While searching for a church to call "home" we found we felt most drawn to the churches that sang the old hymns. Nowadays, up here in the area of the US, it is HARD to find a church that still sings the old hymns. We found one that sang a mixture of old hymns and contemporary modern Christian songs. But it gravitated more and more to less of the old to more of the modern.  We left that church after a pastoral change and found a small conservative church where we were quite comfortable with both leadership and the hymn singing. For Cass's home schooling we used to sing a "new" hymn a week. It was fun and there are so many hymns I have never heard of before. These songs of old speak to me in such depth. They feed me. I cannot get the same from modern songs. I try. But it is a rare. To each his own..... I suppose they are feeding souls of others...just not mine.  By the way, that 2nd church faded too......as more and more Amish came in (Our main missionary field was to the Amish), more and more folks wanted the modern tunes. What bothered me (And my husband) is that often in these songs, they are composed of just 3, 4, 5 or 6 lines you simply sing over and over and over.....Personally, I also found that boring. The old hymns just are so much more soul-fulfilling. And when you look at the biographies of some of the writers...WOW. What they went thru to write some of these heart wrenching soul-inspiring hymns....just..wow, OK, I'm off my soap box now. If anyone here is into the modern Christian music, that is fine by me....it's just not my thing.  |
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We left that church after a pastoral change and found a small conservative church where we were quite comfortable with both leadership and the hymn singing. For Cass's home schooling we used to sing a "new" hymn a week. It was fun and there are so many hymns I have never heard of before. These songs of old speak to me in such depth. They feed me. I cannot get the same from modern songs. I try. But it is a rare. To each his own..... I suppose they are feeding souls of others...just not mine.